Author Topic: Caution!!  (Read 9845 times)

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Offline Rocket

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Caution!!
« on: January 14, 2009, 12:12:40 PM »
As we try to move forward, I will start to pay attention more to NOOBs coming in and making them aware of the price you can pay. Like I have mentioned many times now there is a definite progression in this sport. Cannot just put down the shoreline pole, gloves, boat keys, jogging shoes, whatevers and think you can become a kayak fisherman. With no useful OCEAN knowledge you will get into trouble or worst get others into life threatening situations.

Fair warning to all that are new and/or thinking about this exciting but potentially life risking sport, think twice. As much as I would like to see the sport flourish, I rather it not grow an inch more if it means irresponsible people are going to "charge". This not one ice pond or a steep hill...we talking bout the ocean. You need years of ocean experience IMO to go "big" on the kayak.
Get it into ALL your guys heads, train, learn, train, learn, and you still might not be ready for Mother Nature.

None of us are ever out of harms way when dealing with the ocean,  not TEAM AH, not Uyedas, not Chos, not Boogie, not Uncle Ji or even Hugh. And these are a few of the most experienced watermen I know here. All these guys have far more years than I do...so not Roc either. If we are all paranoid cautious, maybe everyone should take this approach.

I would eventually like to see a color coded certification where you are restricted to certain places without proper certification. Just a thought to hinder the unknowing and inexperienced from making catastrophic mistakes. If thats what it takes to keep the groms safe. Be safe always. Aloha, Rocket and the Aquahunters ohana.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 07:46:07 PM by Rocket »

OahuDave

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 12:32:17 PM »
Good points Roc. Maybe the more experienced could come up with a map of oahu waters and maybe color code it and post it here. Good areas for the noobs, those with a couple years exp and those who are experienced. I know I am sometimes curious where else I could go. I launch between Sunset and Aweoweo most of the time. Also Kailua, Kaneohe and Diamond Head area. I've wanted to launch Mokuleia a couple times, but wasnt sure what the currents and such were so I decided not to.

As always the weather makes all areas off limits at times, but I think just as a help for those new at the sport. I know I had NO idea where I could launch for awhile. Just went where others pointed me to.

Offline Marvin "Da Bear"

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 01:45:33 PM »
I think with the events that happen this last weekend that there is danger in this sport. The idea that it only happen to the other guys or you are an expert can get you in trouble. I error on the side of caution and live to read an other day of Aquahunters than being fish food.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 02:07:06 PM »
All for that. 

Although I have years on the water as a surfer, some diving and weekends on boats.  I consider myself by NO means an experienced waterman and absolutely consider myself a noob as far as kayak fishing goes.  There is still so much to learn about the water and weather conditions. 

I cut my early teeth in Haleiwa harbor and then slowly from Haleiwa to Waimea, summer time.  I still will not go to unfamiliar grounds unless it is with a partner/group.  If solo, I stick to areas I know and never more than a swim away from shore. It's become habit to do a safety check before launch.  PFD, VHF, cell, food/water. Now I have a small handheld gps also. 

Mikey
just stoked to be out there.

Ahnkochee

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 02:28:37 PM »
"I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.  For man also does not know his time. Just like fishes that are being taken in an evil net, and like birds that are being taken in a trap, so the sons of men themselves are being ensnared at a calamitous time, when it falls upon them suddenly."

King Solomon- Ecclesiastes 9:11,12
1000 BC

Offline Yoda Man

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 02:29:27 PM »
Like allot of Noobs,

  We've spend time in the water from various sports.  Half of my life was deep sea fishing where I've once owned boats.  I surfed in high school (long time ago) & Scuba/free dive (stopped because of sinus issues)...  
Even though it gets tempting, I respect the sport and mostly the Ocean to stay within my means.  I'm proud to be a Noob and my first Kayak fish was a Moana Weke (nothing like the AhI's and Marlins in the past)...  I'm very proud of it and have no rush to be like rocket them...   (unless I buy another boat?!?)

In short, this sport is fun regardless of your level...  Be humble! it's suppose to be enjoyable thing... (I hope)



Offline wildirish

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 06:50:04 PM »
I have not made it yet to a meeting but Hui Waa has a nice progression system that requires you to go out with I think sailor steve's approval before making open ocean runs.  I hope that some of the NOob group would takes advantage of the club to further their skills and get direct feedback on paddles.  That is my plan anyway; I know P&P has a kayak club on the big island as well.  Fishing is one skill set as well as learning to properly kayak in various situations.  For my .02 cents think putting the two together making consistent progress is even more challenging. 
E Malama I Ka Wai Ola  Protect our waters FOR LIFE

Always leave the beach better than you found it, respect the locals,
respect all, so those who do not respect, can see the way. You will never receive what you do not give. Live Pono

Offline killakine

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 12:37:10 AM »
Before anyone jump into the water. Sit down with your monster drink or Coffey or just water and talk about the strategy or area that  you will be fishing. Watch
the water for a while. See which way the current is running. Double check
all your gears. Do some stretches. Remember do this everytime you go out
even the same place you go all the time. Everyday is diffrent. When in doubt
don't go out. Catching fish is fun. Kayaking is fun, but it's not worth your life.
There will always be another day.

Offline Boogie-D

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 11:06:50 AM »
thanks rocket: like Ike says as much as i try to be ready for everything the ocean is very dangerous. sometime i take the fact i have been in and around the ocean my whole life for granted. even with a life time of training, and my love for the ocean, i fear her very much and even more so now. even with every precaution god has his own plan

"I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.  For man also does not know his time. Just like fishes that are being taken in an evil net, and like birds that are being taken in a trap, so the sons of men themselves are being ensnared at a calamitous time, when it falls upon them suddenly."
King Solomon- Ecclesiastes 9:11,12
1000 BC

Thanks Ji i love you man

I have not made it yet to a meeting but Hui Waa has a nice progression system that requires you to go out with I think sailor steve's approval before making open ocean runs.  I hope that some of the NOob group would takes advantage of the club to further their skills and get direct feedback on paddles.  That is my plan anyway; I know P&P has a kayak club on the big island as well.  Fishing is one skill set as well as learning to properly kayak in various situations.  For my .02 cents think putting the two together making consistent progress is even more challenging. 

I cant say enough about the Hui Waa. they are by far the biggest and best kayak club available to you. they are a great group of veteran waterman and are excellent at helping noobies find there way. like mike says you can go on runs that are rated and you can go with a group of salty vets. at the Hui Waa runs you will be able to progress with you own strength and in your own time. the rating system they have is excellent and you can progress in the Hui Waa from the lowest rating to the highest rated runs and do it all in the safety of experienced water man. I HIGHLY RECOMEND the Hui Waa for noob paddlers especially if you don't have much water experience or have very little time on a kayak. this is the place to go and learn. thanks mike.

WE MUST DO EVERY THING POSSIBLE TO ENSURE OUR SAFETY AND ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO THE SAME.

Wind is the fuel for my Hobie. Aloha Boogie-D www.coastalkayaktours.com

Offline saltcreekcalico

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2009, 06:14:25 AM »
Everyone needs to exercise caution and safety like Roc said.  Even the greatest watermen fall victim to the ocean.  The ocean has claimed some of the most experienced fishermen, surfers, and divers in Hawaii history like Foo, Chesser, Eddie, and Gene H., may they RIP.  If these super human aquamen can die out there anyone of us average guys don't stand a chance.  check the news and weather, take care of your friends,  don't leave anyone behind.

Offline flyersfan

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009, 03:43:09 PM »
First off...I agree with everything Roc said...Well put. Momma Nature is never to be underestimated.

I just got back from Africa...What happened to prompt this?

OahuDave

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2009, 03:47:07 PM »
First off...I agree with everything Roc said...Well put. Momma Nature is never to be underestimated.

I just got back from Africa...What happened to prompt this?

Read the Big Island threat about Missing Kayaker. Tragic story that happens from time to time to really bring safety and good decision making to everyones attention.

Offline morninchew

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2009, 04:21:42 PM »
safety first.  no one should think they are immune to trouble in the ocean.
"There are good lures and there are old lures, but there is no such thing as good-old lures."

Offline YAKuza

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2009, 06:55:14 PM »
i second that! Safety! ITS EVERYONES RESPONSIBILITY...
always ALOHA, Ur brother from another mother......

Offline Joe

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2009, 04:32:00 PM »
Great post Rocket.. I am a noob to yak fishing and I will admit it. I also have not even considered going past the break. I stay in my sheltered bay getting used to the yak and moving around on it. Some day when I feel confident and I have a good partner I will go out,, if just for a little while so "test the water" but I am in no rush. Though I have wished and for it I still dont have gills behind the ears to breath the liquid so I have to stay on top of it.

Offline wilkinsonk

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2009, 10:33:23 PM »
I would eventually like to see a color coded certification where you are restricted to certain places without proper certification. Just a thought to hinder the unknowing and inexperienced from making catastrophic mistakes. If thats what it takes to keep the groms safe. Be safe always. Aloha, Rocket and the Aquahunters ohana.

Rocket,

This reminds me a little of the rating system used in climbing.  There a decimal system (Yosemite) that goes from:
1 = Walking
2 = Hiking up steep trail
3 = Steep hiking
4 = Steep hiking / scrambling. Some parties may want a rope.
5 = Climbing. Most parties will want a rope. Exposed terrain.

And the rate 5 goes up in decimals based on the difficulty.  I think what you are referring to is more in line with the grading system used to indicate the amount of commitment (time/risk/etc) associated with the climb:
Grade I Quick climb.
Grade II Two - three hours.
Grade III Half a day
Grade IV All day
Grade V Two days
Grade VI Longer than two days

In the above rate/grades, anything under grade II or III has little commitment. Regardless of the technical difficulty, if something happens (weather/fatigue/injury) the party can retreat or effect a rescue with little worry (although people still die on easy climbs within walking distance from their car).  The real danger begins to play once the grade goes up past IV or V.  At this point an injury or bad weather can pose great risk...you are most likely out of cell phone range and cannot effect a rescue (unless you have the new SPOT-type devices) and must rely on you own abilities to make it home safely.  Mishaps in these situations often lead to one of two things, an epic story that you share with your friends (a great learning experience), or the loss of life or limb.

When I was climbing in the Cascades, people would get seriously injured all of the time.  The biggest peak in Washington has a parking lot at 5000 feet, which is a short hike from the snowfield.  Same for some similar peaks in Oregon (like Hood).  People see the mountain and it is so close...they just start walking...without any preparation.  Lots of people have been lost or hurt because of this.  I felt the same draw when I first moved there, and after some preparation launched myself at some of the high peaks...learning hard lessons along the way.  Determined to keep climbing and stay safe, I took a guided course and solidified a lot of learning.  After that I continued to refine my skill set and would feel comfortable going just about anywhere in the mountains (snow/glacier/vertical ice/rock) with the knowledge that I could handle the situation if it arose.  If I ever leave Hawaii I will likely go back to Washington and apprentice as a guide.

Admittedly I feel the same draw here for the ocean that I did in Washington for the mountains.  It's right in front of you, always.  The temptation is there...only a mile or two off shore...so close.  So foolish.  Ah, but the crux of the situation, how to find a mentor.  I think that that is really the key.  Who is willing to take new folks under wing and teach them enough to not only be safe, but not endanger other.  The Hui Wa'a is great.  An awesome bunch of nice folks.  I second (or third or forth) the recommendation to join the club and learn as much as possible.  To any new kayaker out there, find a mentor. 

Sorry for the ramble.  I do not know enough about the Hawaiian water to offer advice on how to grade the difficulty/severity of the various areas.  I do have some mapping background and access to charting software and could help in making any visual.

Later,
Ken

OahuDave

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2009, 05:40:30 AM »
I found myself 2 miles or so off NS a couple times and land looked so close. Good conditions so no worries, but I totally underestimate the time it takes to get back in. Luckily in these situations its only the wife who is mad at me and my life isn't jeopardized, but it is deceiving. Like you said the ocean is right there, it can be smooth and flat one minute and big swells the next. Your launch site might have been cherry when you left at 6am, but that changes so quickly. My biggest problem is not being able to read the waves. I am just clueless. I look about 100 yards off shore and really have no clue what I am looking at. Luckily the most that's happened so far because of my inexperience is getting rolled a couple times at Sunset (great place to do it with all the people there, ugh), but it made me realize I gotta be more careful. I am getting better at figuring out wind and waves due to all the useful information here, but the current also catches me off guard.

We paddled out Sunset one day (4 of us) and were just chatting a bit, planning to paddle to Haleiwa and we sorta look up and we are at three tables, we paddle another 45 mins or so, look up and we are still at three tables. We were sorta like WTF?! Just werent making any progress. We were really paddling hard since we were just cruising, but it would have been a rigorous paddle to make it down to Haleiwa. Pretty soon after we decided to just stay near Sunset the winds came up and we all decided to head in. We woulda been down the shore more when the winds came up had we been paddling more aggressively and it would have been an interesting decision where to land. I sort of try and envision several landing spots on any there and back runs I make. I have done a couple Haleiwa to Waimea and back and I try to pick out spots along the way that I can either mark on my gps or visually remember that look like somewhere I could land in case weather takes a turn for the worse.

Offline Paz

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2009, 09:39:43 AM »
Luckily in these situations its only the wife who is mad at me and my life isn't jeopardized, but it is deceiving.
Dave aren't you married to a Filipino Gal?  If she's mad then your life IS in jeopardy.   :D :D :D

I know what you mean about 2 miles not looking far but that's until you gotta start paddling in.  there's been times when alphadog and I were only about a half mile out and the wind and whitecaps at Northshore start rearing up.  Even that's not fun to paddle back from that distance (see the post on lost uku in surf lol) 
Tandem Kayak Fishing:  Never die alone

OahuDave

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 09:46:24 AM »
ROFL! Good point. :) Even at 4'11" she can take me. :) Hah.

Yeah alphadog and I were NS one time and I got us off course and the wind picked up. It was a nice little haul back into the harbor against the wind and swells. Good hour of paddling maybe for a half mile if that.

Another thing I am slowly learning is to get your bearings where you launched. I know those of you that lived here long time and all that probably do this without thinking and already know the shorelines, but I have paddled out from a launch site and not paid much attention and without my GPS marker I look back at the shore from a mile or so out and really couldn't tell where I launched. I mean I try and find a marker, house, tree, something that I can key off of, but even that can disappear from vision. My gps died on me once when I was out and fortunately I had launched from the harbor so I could find the buoy easy enough, but a couple launch sites woulda been hard to head straight back into. Now I launch and look back quite a bit to see how it looks as I get further out.


Offline Wallz

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Re: Caution!!
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2009, 11:06:18 AM »
Hello everyone, My name is Wallace. The tips and advice everyone provides on this site is very informative.

My friend Randy and I are new to the sport. We bought our Drifters this past Christmas.

I've surfed pretty much all my life so I have a decent idea of how the wide, current, tide, & swell plays a factor at breaks. Kayak fishing is a whole different ball game. We've been out 3 times now once at each spot Maunalua Bay, Alamoana, & KBay. No luck. Mostly lure diving. The first thing I quickly realized is, kayaks are like balloons on water. Secondly, as some of you mentioned, the padel back can be diceiving. I must say there's alot to learn in this sport.

My #1 priority is to study weather patterns and of course train, learn, train, learn, train, learn. Unfortunately reading charts is like a foreign laguage to me. I'll get it someday. Until then I'll stay inside, or near the breaks.
WV

 

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