Author Topic: Help w/ getting monster fish home  (Read 5529 times)

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Offline Living The Dream

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Help w/ getting monster fish home
« on: February 16, 2011, 12:31:36 PM »
I was reading up on DriftingSon's sailfish adventure and his (potential) great white run-in on his next trip out... Which got me to thinking what would happen if the same shark showed up a day earlier [Hemingway wrote about this...]. If I caught a fish I couldn't stow topside it would be awful tempting to hop on channel 68 and hail some help getting the fish to shore. It seems like an unnecessary risk to strap a fish to your sled to get it home or even to tow it home.

Do the ethics of AquaHunters (or Makahiki) condone getting help AFTER you land the fish to get it to shore?
Studies say 60% of the time it works every time.

Offline Rob

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2011, 12:56:29 PM »
Interesting question.

The Makahiki rules state 'If assistance is given in the fight, then points will be split'. I interpret this as no help while fighting and kageing/gaffing is allowed. After that I'm not sure (Rocket?).

I assume getting help from a powerboat is frowned upon, but what about your yakking buddy?
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Offline yelloman

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2011, 01:03:01 PM »
I think depending on the type of kayak and the size of the catch you can load it on top in front of you.
I've had a big ono with tail under my butt and head pointing forward lying on top and paddled severals miles with it.
Would have done the same if I had a 70# sailfish.

Now talk 215# marlin and you get a whole different story.

As far as ethics - I leave that to the organizers .

IMHO - safety first so whatever is safe is OK - whatever is not safe is not OK.
If you tow it alone - tow it behind you, not next to you.
If you tow it as a pair - between you seems fine to me.


iloveewabeach

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2011, 01:48:59 PM »
I just re-read Old Man and the Sea last year... got to thinking, man he could have landed it if he had Steve Cho on speed dial  ;D

http://forum.aquahunters.com/index.php?topic=3653.msg78780#msg78780


IMHO, if you can't bring it in on your own or with help from a fellow kayaker, then it shouldn't count. 

Offline JTani

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 03:02:21 PM »
I just re-read Old Man and the Sea last year... got to thinking, man he could have landed it if he had Steve

Is that the one about the guy from Lanai with the 1000lb marlin? If so that's my good friends cousin. I believe he did land it.

Offline HOLOHOLO

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 05:51:08 PM »
This is a good subject.  "Too big" a fish is a good problem to have.   But it's still a problem.

Obviously, these are kayaks, not tuna charter boats. They were never designed to take "big" game and we are pushing the limits here.  Safety should be Aquahunters' #1 concern and should be encouraged whether a contest is ongoing or not.  

According to the rules, "Assistance may be used in landing fish but, not fighting them".  So what defines "landed"?

In my view, once the fish is "landed" (boated, make and documented) it shouldn't matter whose kayak (or boat, or truck) is used to move the carcass to shore.  As long as the hunter is in its presence till the weigh in.  Is this OK, by the rules?

I would be OK with the use of another members fishbag or hull storage, or outriggers, or ice for transport of any fish OVER a certain length/weight, particularly for monsters like those hitting lures now.  

(You can argue a case that this creates an opportunity for hanky-panky and point rigging, but those are already there).  

It's a risky sport as is, but let's not require anyone to tow a +50# fish to shore, if it can be avoided. When we end up seeing a shark maul a large catch, probably bringing down the kayaker, or an overloaded boat capsizing in surf, or some other rescue scenario, we would feel pretty awful if we encouraged it to happen.  

On one hand, we may need to follow certain international rules to "validate" our record catches, but if any are contrary to the rules of safe kayaking, I hope we will look the other way.

And PLEASE, PLEASE LORD, send a "good problem" with HOLOHOLO's name on it!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 06:17:52 PM by HOLOHOLO »
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Offline Rocket

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2011, 10:30:16 PM »
I counted Andys marlin last season. He landed it by himself and then got Steve to help him get it in. I wouldnt want him to land the thing and then lose it because the rules said he had to do it by himself. Even if you cant do it by yourself and you get split points it should be worth it. Thats what I thought last season.

Offline HOLOHOLO

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2011, 11:30:00 PM »
I didn't catch the reference to the splitting of points in this years rules.  Did I miss it?

And do you ever have to split points when fishing a tandem?  If the other guy is pedaling, steering the boat and maybe handling a net, is he assisting in the fighting or the landing?

And why must I take a PDF onboard with me??  I get seasick reading out there!  ;)
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Offline Living The Dream

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2011, 05:58:15 AM »
Quote
Safety should be Aquahunters' #1 concern and should be encouraged whether a contest is ongoing or not. 
Yea, that's kind of what I'm thinking, particularly since we're just talking about what you do well after the catch is 'finished'. Even if I COULD schlep a 50# fish home several miles away that doesn't mean I SHOULD, if safety is a concern. Wind/waves/surf/boat traffic/sharks/setting sun/potential for paddling injury/fish spoilage all seem like they could be concerns under the right circumstances. Weigh that against the perceived bravado of paddling a carcass home...      I'm just sayin'

Studies say 60% of the time it works every time.

Offline Doc Hall

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2011, 07:37:15 AM »
Last year, getting assisted from a PB led to a DQ.  Just sayin
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Offline Rob

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2011, 07:52:40 AM »
I counted Andys marlin last season. He landed it by himself and then got Steve to help him get it in. I wouldnt want him to land the thing and then lose it because the rules said he had to do it by himself. Even if you cant do it by yourself and you get split points it should be worth it. Thats what I thought last season.

I think that is right way of doing it. One the fish is gaffed/kageed and on the yak (or tied to it) the it is yours. You can then get help from another kayaker getting it home if necessary. I think that Doc is right about powerboats though, as this would lead to a grey area of what exactly counts as a 'mothership'.
If it was easy it wouldn't be this much fun...

Offline hamakuamoi

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2011, 09:24:13 AM »
You could also take a picture and release the marlin if you were concerned with other factors. You had fun and you give someone else the opportunity to catch it. The bonus would be you can continue fishing and  catch another one hopefully closer to port.



Offline HOLOHOLO

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2011, 01:37:12 PM »
So true hamakuamoi!  But CNR the biggest yak fish of your life?  That's a hard one.  

In some marlin/sailfish meccas, they require CNR and stress releasing the fish completely unharmed, with barbless hooks, hand landing and other conservation techniques.  They have no choice in the matter and have gotten it down to a science.  Glad we still have the option here.

Re "Mothershipping", so long as the yak/yakker does not get a motor assist it's not mothershipping to me.  Giving the catch a PB ride home does not seem like a big deal.

(BTW, for a modest shipping fee, I will happy to shuttle all your record billfish to shore on my Aka's/tramps.)  ;)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 01:43:38 PM by HOLOHOLO »
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Offline Lawai'a.com

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2011, 03:32:34 PM »
a 50 # fish still fits inside my yak all nice and iced up in a fish bag. i think you guys need to get better yaks ;) today had something even bigger on top coming home ;)

Offline Rob

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2011, 03:34:25 PM »
From what I am aware, successfully releasing a billfish required it to be bought to boat quickly. This is evidently possible using 80-130lb setups from a power boat, but from a kayak I'm not sure. Maybe someone with experience (UB, Chos?) can give us some insight into how long it takes to land a billfish from a yak, and if it was capable of swimming away even if they had wanted to release it.

From my admittedly limited experience with larger pelagics, the fight was so long they were completely SNUFFLEUPAGUS by the time I try to gaff them. Even if I have tried to release them I suspect they would have just sunk and died.

This actually goes for all species, especially hard fighting species like ulua and oio. If you want to CnR you should to hold them in the water while they recover, sometimes it can take a few minutes. When they are ready to go they will give an kick of their tail. If they don't kick after a few minutes they are probably so knackered they would die if released. Might as well take them home and eat them.
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Offline Lawai'a.com

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2011, 04:01:19 PM »
takes a long looooong time to get um to be ready to come next the yak, think about this all you gung ho billfish cnrs do you really want a green billfish next to your yak so it can explode out of the water on to your lap. I seen marlin on pbs green and there no fun. once when i was younger and gung ho i brought a green marlin to the boat the thing went nuts i got kinda wraped up all i could do was hang on till the giant trolling hook broke in half it was crazy how strong that thing was. i dont want no part of that on my yak i try and tire um out if i hook um.

Offline Rocket

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2011, 04:52:12 PM »
This is a good subject.  "Too big" a fish is a good problem to have.   But it's still a problem.

Obviously, these are kayaks, not tuna charter boats. They were never designed to take "big" game and we are pushing the limits here.  Safety should be Aquahunters' #1 concern and should be encouraged whether a contest is ongoing or not.  

According to the rules, "Assistance may be used in landing fish but, not fighting them".  So what defines "landed"?

In my view, once the fish is "landed" (boated, make and documented) it shouldn't matter whose kayak (or boat, or truck) is used to move the carcass to shore.  As long as the hunter is in its presence till the weigh in.  Is this OK, by the rules?

I would be OK with the use of another members fishbag or hull storage, or outriggers, or ice for transport of any fish OVER a certain length/weight, particularly for monsters like those hitting lures now.  

(You can argue a case that this creates an opportunity for hanky-panky and point rigging, but those are already there).  

It's a risky sport as is, but let's not require anyone to tow a +50# fish to shore, if it can be avoided. When we end up seeing a shark maul a large catch, probably bringing down the kayaker, or an overloaded boat capsizing in surf, or some other rescue scenario, we would feel pretty awful if we encouraged it to happen.  

On one hand, we may need to follow certain international rules to "validate" our record catches, but if any are contrary to the rules of safe kayaking, I hope we will look the other way.

And PLEASE, PLEASE LORD, send a "good problem" with HOLOHOLO's name on it!


In the end its up to you if you want to tangle with a billfish, your not obligated by any AH rules to land it. "Safety first" is an adopted motto of AH. As far as the "landed" rule, I gotta see what I wrote. I really mean that help getting it to shore with a paddling/peddling friend is fine for the Makahiki.

If your going to throw it on a PB for the ride in, that leaves too much to debate. For example Andy and Steve brought in the 225# with no PB help. Do I make that the standard for the Makahiki.

I think most guys here will not tow in a 50# fish because it fits on/in a kayak.

 Who said anything about being required to do this anyhow, there are no rules requiring this.

Anyways holoholo...are you even in the Makahiki?

Offline Rob

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2011, 10:01:06 PM »
takes a long looooong time to get um to be ready to come next the yak, think about this all you gung ho billfish cnrs do you really want a green billfish next to your yak so it can explode out of the water on to your lap. I seen marlin on pbs green and there no fun. once when i was younger and gung ho i brought a green marlin to the boat the thing went nuts i got kinda wraped up all i could do was hang on till the giant trolling hook broke in half it was crazy how strong that thing was. i dont want no part of that on my yak i try and tire um out if i hook um.

Agreed. Even a double figured mahi can be a handfull on a yak if it's still green.
If it was easy it wouldn't be this much fun...

Offline HOLOHOLO

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2011, 11:26:18 PM »
In the end its up to you if you want to tangle with a billfish, your not obligated by any AH rules to land it. "Safety first" is an adopted motto of AH. As far as the "landed" rule, I gotta see what I wrote. I really mean that help getting it to shore with a paddling/peddling friend is fine for the Makahiki.

If your going to throw it on a PB for the ride in, that leaves too much to debate. For example Andy and Steve brought in the 225# with no PB help. Do I make that the standard for the Makahiki.

I think most guys here will not tow in a 50# fish because it fits on/in a kayak.

 Who said anything about being required to do this anyhow, there are no rules requiring this.

Anyways holoholo...are you even in the Makahiki?

I'm not competing in this one, but that's not the point.  It's less of a concern for me, or Boogie or Dan, cuz we have Akas or tramps to help us pack an oversized fish.  But for scuppers and such,.. It makes you think.  Just how big is too big?  

Rocket, I'm only referring to an "oversized" fish like a sailfish or other "monster" alluded to in the main thread. It's incredibly cool that these fish are being landed on kayaks right now.  It makes for great reading and it raises a few new concerns.  

God and Ocean Kayak never intended for a large billfish to ride on a yak.  It may not happen often, but in cases where a catch's length impedes a paddler or pushes the load rating of a normal yak, (like the 225#r) then a power assist (or any other type) seems a reasonable and safe option.  

Anyway, thank God for the AH buddy system at times like that, Good luck hooking more big ones guys!


« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 11:29:42 PM by HOLOHOLO »
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Offline da Pirates

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Re: Help w/ getting monster fish home
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2011, 03:35:19 AM »
We'd like to see how you pack an "oversized" fish on your akas or tramps.  Share us some of your fish pix and stories.

I've never ridden an OK, but looks pretty clear to me that they CAN handle big fish.  Andy, Chris, Roc and UBs all ride OKs and consistently catch monster sized loads.  They've proven it can be done safely.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 03:57:59 AM by Brian »
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Big boys at the grounds! Konas alowed us to fish for only like 20 mins. We got it down!

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